They entered the office and ordered the clinics staffers to lie on the floor. Even now, I cant say that. Patients would spend an hour or two in the waiting room, only to get a rushed exam and prescription. Dr. Jeff is married to Petra Mickova Petra though she is his second wife. And you can kind of look at it like locker-room talk . Once his colleagues were out of the business, Young began crafting a persona based around rock music and hard living. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca and Jack Segelstein. He has pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him. He gave Young total control over what was recorded. So what? Scott Deberry: When I first was going in the office, I could go in there and thered be maybe 10 of us in there. #saturdays at noon est to hear #nikkidarling chat with the #RockDoc Jeff Young II #musicmeetmedicine Starts at 12pm est. They learned to ignore it. One person with knowledge of the case gave me a list of several women who, the person believed, were having sex with Young in exchange for drugs. Thrash metal, heavy metal, speed metal, blues, classical. Long after the criminal charges against him became known, many of Youngs patients and friends came to his defenseincluding some whom he had seemingly wronged. Youngs case provides a rare glimpse into the ways patients wind up addicted to the powerful painkillers fueling the national opioid epidemic. They are often too under-resourced and understaffed to keep a watchful eye on all medical providers. I dont wear underwear. Actually very nice, yeah. Doctors offices make money by billing insurance companies for the services the providers perform, but it was hard to do this at PreventaGenix because the documentation for Youngs visits was so shoddy. The agency also searched Youngs cellphone. Rock Doc TV. (Soft percussive synthesizer music plays.). Khazan: This is Tanya Ballard. You ready? And were gonna send a message. They called it the single largest crackdown on prescription opioids in history. Branding himself as the "Rock Doc," he flooded his social media accounts with images of a party-loving lifestyle, vitriol for his "haters" and even a pilot episode for a reality TV show . But the more time I spent thinking about it, the more I started to realize that Jeff has a point. One of his patients, Helena Louvaris, told me that Young saved her life by putting her on a diet plan. RockDocTV Show. Whether or not Young is convicted, the perverse incentives for doctors to see patients for short visits and to prescribe too many unnecessary drugs will remain. Look at me! They liked his plainspoken approach to medicine, a profession typically associated with jargon and elitism. Young had an active channel on Periscope, where he and Phillips drank and waxed philosophical. Later that month, M.Y. Khazan: And Christi also told me a very similar thing as the other patients I talked to: Shes had terrible experiences with other doctors. But they helped create the opioid crisis all the same. And if you want to help other people discover the show, share it online with the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. And whats remarkable about the Rock Doc is that he streamed his private interactions with patients online. Whats up kids? You may not like my rock and roll, you may not like my piercings, you may not like my sexy-ass beard, but you know what? From that day on, he saw him for everything. ), (What sounds like road noise plays in the background of a Periscope clip. Though many of these deaths have been caused by street drugs such as heroin and illegally manufactured fentanyl, the nations opioid epidemic was sparked by the kinds of painkillers medical providers prescribed. Young was indicted on drug-trafficking charges in April 2019. (Patel did not respond to requests for comment.) Young began arriving at the clinic smelling rancid, with greasy hair, and the clinics money problems mounted. Its hard to hear or believe that the only provider whod ever been kind to youwho made you comfortablehad been accused of abusing other patients. It moved so slowly in punishing drug-addicted nurses that some were able to get new jobs and steal narcotics while under investigation, an eastern Tennessee news station, WJHL, found in 2016. Khazan: Looking at all the allegations, I mean, its overprescribingoverprescribing to someone whose pill bottles had his name on them and who died of a drug overdose. People who criticized Young swiftly became his enemies. I told him about this podcastexplained to him what a podcast was. 1:32. (The drugmaker that is most often blamed for the epidemic doesnt agree with this assessment: Suggesting that activities that last occurred more than 16 years ago are responsible for todays complex and multifaceted opioid crisis is deeply flawed, a Purdue Pharma spokesperson, Robert Josephson, said in a statement to The New York Times for a story on this issue.). And I said, And they say that youre trading sex for medication. He was like, You know, these motherfuckers lie all the damn time. [Chuckles.] But she also told me the story of her ex-husband. The feds say Young . Lots of people refused to talk to me because they fear Young, but many others refused because they love him. Will be glad to take the balance out of your ass. To another, Jeff asked, You want to come by for a checkup tomorrow? He pleaded not guilty to the charges, and is currently in jail awaiting trial. His indictment implicated him and two of his former supervising physicians, Alexander Alperovich and Andrew Rudin, and alleged that Youngs motives in prescribing controlled substances to his patients were often to obtain money, notoriety, and sexual favors. Alperovich and Rudin, the indictment claims, accepted money derived from the proceeds of the conspiracy in exchange for their purported supervision. (Both have pleaded not guilty. Naylor: And I remember him saying, Bring him to the office. (Young has pleaded not guilty to all charges. 2,760 Followers, 1,655 Following, 2,046 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Jeff Young II (JY2) #RockDoc (@jeffyoungii) Kevin: Jeff and I are full of antics. Khazan: Do you remember what kind of music was playing? Young grabs them and takes a big whiff. (She did not want to be named for fear of jeopardizing her business.) His friend Melanie Lupino, a local bartender, said he got girlfriends easily, so she was baffled by the notion that he would have to give people drugs to get sex. Well all be killed., It helped that Young had prominent friends he could call on for help. Khazan: So Ive written a million stories about this. Defending himself in one of his on-camera interviews, Young acknowledges that he is maybe a little untraditional and that he might like to drink a little bit after hours. But, he says, Im very passionate about what I do I work hard, but I play harder. Youngs practice was, for a time, an inexpensive, reliable option for medical care in Jackson. There was no statement even made to the Feds. Khazan: A lot of them, unfortunately, went with it. The sharpteeth charge through and run into the rock spire and fall down. The biggest blow came in 2019, when Jeff was indicted by the federal government for overprescribing opioids, often in order to get, quote, money, notoriety, and sexual favors., In a court hearing, investigators described several Facebook messages between Jeff and his patients, identified only by their initials. Even when they do, the boards are mainly composed of doctors and nurses peers, who can be reluctant to throw the book at one of their own, says Rebecca Haw Allensworth, a Vanderbilt University law professor who has studied medical boards. So what, I dont go get fucked up at the country club with the rest of the stiffs here in J-Town? In 2020, had he not been indicted, he would have been allowed to petition to have his prescribing privileges reinstated, as long as he agreed to extra monitoring. As many as three women a day allegedly came to his office for sex, though one former employee said Young might have had sex with more women after hours. Naylor: I felt like he was being treated unfairlythat maybe he had even been set up. They described Young to me as intelligent, as knowing almost as much as a doctor would knowor maybe even more. In an email to The Atlantic, Working said that when it came to Phillipss actions, there was no direct threat. Then it fades out.). She appreciated that he asked about her grandkids. The Daily Beast Automated News Feed No Censorship, Just News. Occupation (s) Guitarist. Some speculated that it could have been drugs, alcohol, the prospect of fame, a divorce from his second wife the year after PreventaGenix launched, or a combination of all of them. Young seemed to have been expecting them. One patient she knew kept a cane in the trunk of her car and visited doctors offices with it in order to appear disabled so she could get more pills. To have a medical provider be polite to you, accept you, maybe even dig through your charts to find the root cause of your ailmentsit can be validating. Aw, shit! Khazan: I had a lot of Why on earth? questions: Why would he do this? Young had also allegedly begun siphoning off $100 almost every day from the clinic for his personal expenses, according to former employees. Young: So, the, uh, the sinister ministerthat would be me (Fades under again.). On it, they found evidence of Young having sex with many different women, one of whom appeared to be motionless and had her eyes closed, a DEA agent testified later. Khazan: Like, for example, here he is sniffing a pair of womens underwear with his sidekick, a friend named Kevin. And I was like, My mind is blown. She once saw someone running across her yard into the woods. Others accused me of seeking to discredit Young and slander his name. He has been arrested several times, though not convicted, for assaulting women. All rights reserved. Part of the judges reasoning was that Youngs Facebook posts showed a propensity for violence., Young continued blogging from jail, somehow managing to write a few posts for a website that promotes medical providers rights to prescribe opioids freely. Phillips, Youngs best friend, would often stop by the clinic to hang out and drink, according to former employees. The nurse practitioner Jeffrey Young produced a reality-TV pilot in which he branded himself "the Rock Doc., The week that followed Martin Luther King Jr.s assassination was revolutionaryso why was it nearly forgotten? The grosser side. Youngs second marriage was already in trouble by the time PreventaGenix launched, and after his divorce he quickly found new girlfriends. I am sick of people only judging you by what you do in your personal life, one woman wrote on his Facebook page in September 2016, when Young was charged with assault after a woman claimed that he had screamed at her in the parking lot of his office. When you got all kinds of money, said Jon Benjamin Sharp, a local musician who used to see Young around town, you got all kinds of friends. (Sharp made clear that he himself wasnt a fan of Youngs.) I had a lot of Why on earth? questions, the Atlantic reporter Olga Khazan says. Khazan: Does that change how you feel about him? LeAnn said that Jeff stayed for hours, changing IV bags and chatting with him. Khazan: Jeff and his friend Kevin would often head to Periscope to defend themselves. In 2016, Young, who was 42 at the time, invited a cameraman to shoot a pilot episode about his life as a nurse practitioner in Jackson, Tennessee. He graduated from Musicians Institute in 1985, and is best known for his time with the thrash metal band Megadeth, appearing on the 1988 album So Far, So Good. Youngs devotees have maintained for years that he was a great man on a noble mission, and that people who spoke against him didnt understand his radical approach. His Rock Doc persona helped him connect with patients who might never have felt comfortable in a traditional doctors office. On April 17, 2019, officials swept through Appalachia, charging 53 medical professionals, including doctors, nurses, and pharmacists. Calles: Oh my gosh. Tennessees nursing board, the main agency that has power over nurse practitioners in the state, launched its investigation into Young within a year of PreventaGenix opening. Heres what I can tell you. JACKSON, Tenn. The end is nowhere close for three medical professionals charged in a federal opioid crackdown earlier this year. Were taking next week off to work on new stories, but well be back with new episodes starting April 15. Khazan: LeAnns story was similar to Tanyas and LaRhondas and Christis. In confessional-style interviews, Young seems to enjoy offending anyone whos shocked by his approach. Most of these doctors werent like Jeff. This ingratiating tendency allegedly extended to handing out prescriptions. The resulting addictions were blamed on reckless patients, rather than the fundamental chemistry of the opioids themselves. Case 18-11780-BLS Doc 45 Filed 08/02/18 Page 1 of 1041. You can all suck my d***. Ballard: When it comes to the high-society people, like the pharmacists and these other doctors that were out to get money out of their patientsJeff didnt care about the money. Thirty minutes. And I remember texting him back, and I remember saying, Jeff, he is a grumpy, old, country man, and hes not going to be an easy patient, but something is terribly wrong. And he said, I got that covered too. So I get my husband up there. Julia Longoria: Over 20 years ago, pharmaceutical companies began to market the use of a magical pill. He raises a glass filled with red wine, as if in a toast. Jacksons cheeriness, though, is at odds with the populations somewhat grim physical health. In September 2014, Young, Reitz, and Patel opened their first clinic and called it PreventaGenix. If a patient would text him a compliment, he would blast it all over Facebook, one former employee told me. Right? He did know exactly what to talk to him about to make him feel at ease, and he impressed that grumpy old man so much that that was his primary-care doctor and the only doctor he would see. Khazan: In 2016, Jeff tried to broadcast his world even more widely. Another said, I was thinking of you today and how much you have helped me.. And that was not the case at all. (A moment of narrative silence. Hed wear Halloween masks and make off-color jokes. Young would call these liaisons nooners or say it was tap-that-ass Tuesday, according to court testimony. Hes so cute thats my brother and my best friend, Young says, giving Phillips a gentle kiss. Officials were well aware of the allegations surrounding him over this period: The states health department had received at least 13 complaints about Young since 2015. They didnt drop F-bombs or smell womens underwear online. American doctors went on to prescribe opioids at much higher rates than their counterparts in other countries. (Young has denied that hed had sex with the patient who appeared to be drugged.). Purdue voice-over: Some patients may be afraid of taking opioids because theyre perceived as too strong or addictive but that is far from actual fact. Jeff wanted what was best for his patient. After PreventaGenix shut down, Young told his patients on Facebook that they could contact Reitz and Patels attorney to get their medical records. Khazan: Tanya had a different theory about where all the criticism was actually coming from. He tried to ignore it, but when he woke up the next morning, LeAnn noticed he still looked really bad. Stephanie, who returned to Youngs clinic after the incident at the club, said Young helped her more than any doctor shes ever seen. (One employee, Karla Wright, testified later that she had never seen Young have sex with women at the office. Off camera, Young allegedly prescribed 1.4 million addictive pills and had sex with female patients. So hes a little out there. But it seemed like she wasnt the only one getting pain meds from the Rock Doc. Its a shame, he told me, that Young got into so much legal trouble; think of all the people he might have helped. Do you feel safe with Mr. Young being out there? a prosecutor on the case, Andrew Pennebaker, asked Pickering in court. (Fades under.). Scott Deberry: Everyone in his office was all white. I dont like him asking out my daughter But even then, I still went to him, and my ex-husband still went to him. But, in theory, there should have been a check on all this. As the nursing boards investigation of Young inched along, another agency launched its own probe into the Rock Doc. Music by Parish Council (Dabbles), water feature (ariel), Arabian Prince in a UK World (The Feeling of Being on a Diet), Keyboard (Being There and My Atelier), and Column (The Art of Fun (Raj) and Sensuela), provided by Tasty Morsels. In November 2016, the health department threatened to file charges against Young before the board of nursing. No one else seemed capable of treating all her problemsthroat swelling, high blood pressure, attention issues. Hes a great doctor and never has he acted any way towards me but professional! one woman wrote. I mean, he had his doctors lab coat on. In 2014, Young began seeing a patient identified as MY in a letter from Tennessees department of healtha letter that would ultimately lead to a nursing-board hearing for Young. Even if the treatment doesnt work, it feels good to be listened to when youre used to being ignored. It was a story her daughter told her about a time she got sick. This distinction is important, because while nurse practitioners are functioning in the same capacity as physiciansordering and interpreting You need to be a certain kind of person to want a reality-TV show about yourself. As so often happens with irresponsible medical providers, Youngs popularity in the communityalong with an indifferent, slow-moving bureaucracyallowed him to operate for half a decade despite initial warning signs and then multiple arrests and investigations. The next year, Jeff prescribed M.Y. Young cared for all kinds of people, some of whom didnt have money or health insurance. Toward the end of PreventaGenix, the nurse practitioner so many people had praised deteriorated, according to former employees. They just, like, keep their distance from you. The clinic sat on a quiet road crammed with other medical practicesa sleep doctor, a dentist, a nephrologist, an orthodontisteach in its own . Ill meet you there. (The music opens up into a technologic rainforest as synthesizers mimic birdsong.). Listen to the trailer for, The Hard-Partying, Rock-Obsessed Nurse at the Center of a Massive Opioid Bust. Aggressive marketing is one piece of it. Several others dismissed the notion that Young could be sexually coercive. The department suggested that he surrender his license in order to resolve the matter quickly, but according to a report from The Tennessean and The Jackson Sun, a defiant Young rejected that offer. Young is . Naylor: My husband hadnt been to a doctor in years. In an attempt to understand how Young got away with so much for so long, Ive spent more than a year tracking his story, reading court documents, and examining his extensive digital footprint. Young: (Serious, and a little angry.) When one patient told Young over Facebook Messenger that she was in shitty health and about to jump off a bridge, he prescribed her a cocktail of several different drugs, including fentanyl. By 2012, Young was allegedly supplying testosterone without a clear medical reason to high schoolers who wanted to bulk up. Shed come to see Jeff for a range of health issues, from diabetes to cystitis, and she just didnt buy the things people were saying about him. (Endo denied the allegations.) Several people suggested suing for defamation a news station that reported on the incident. [Khazan laughs, then Calles emphasizes each word that follows.] But the allegations against him point toward what can be permissible, even celebrated, in a medical system built on profit. Kevin: (In a Periscope video.) Were small enough where we still talk, Jerry Gist, who was the mayor at the time, told me. Khazan: To me, this felt immature, but it was all part of the brand. Dang, Jeff What happened? Helena Louvaris and Melanie Lupino, two of Youngs staunch defenders, both declined to speak with me when I called them back to see if they still supported him after he was jailed. Naylor: Thats a really hard question for me to answer, because I believeour whole family believesthat he saved my husbands life. Young: So Im gonna not have a cigar. And even then, I didnt want to hear it. (Ringing leads into a soft, humming organ song.). Khazan: LaRhonda didnt know anything about all of thisthe nursing board didnt make their investigation publicbut she was following him on social media. Longoria: And what part of the crisis were you most focused on? I accept all insurance, he told her. In May 2019, shortly after Young was indicted, I traveled to Jackson to try to understand the place that gave rise to the Rock Doc. Were going to take the worst of the worst. Yall partying in the office? [Chuckles.] Many told me that they didnt want to talk on the record. An obese man explains that Young helped him with his swollen leg. I asked to speak with him for this story, but because of a gag order on the case, his lawyer declined interviews with me. Hey, are you paying attention? Purdue Pharma ad voice-over: Once youve found the right doctor and have told him or her about your pain, dont be afraid to take what they give you. You may not like what I stand for. Patients say the Rock Doc helped them like no one else could. Longoria: This week, Olga Khazan peers into an internet portal to try to find one answer to how on earth we found ourselves in an opioid crisis. Its gonna be a little cold, all right? The man says if he were ever shot, he would go to Young before going to the hospital. (Later, Phillips pleaded guilty to threatening a Drug Enforcement Administration agent who was investigating Young. Always have been for the patient. Know his wife, age, net worth, family, Watching this makes me really sad, one YouTube user commented on the Rock Doc pilot in 2019. So it just kind of, I guess, comforted me. 0:06. He blasted heavy metal at his private practice and filled his Instagram feed with photos of himself smoking cigars. He graduated from Union University, an evangelical Christian school, in 1995, then earned a degree from the University of Tennessee College of Nursing in 2003. The pilot footagesome of which Young posted to YouTube, and some of which I obtained from a person who was once close to Youngportrays the Rock Doc as a medical bad boy whos willing to break free from the establishment to deliver real talk. Thank you for taking care of me, not just the sex and satisfaction but the Soma too, wrote one patient, referring to a muscle relaxer. Rather than suffer any real consequences for his allegedly reckless prescribing, Young continued to work as a medical provider for years. A woman I spoke with who has worked for seven doctors offices in the area estimates that about three-quarters of medical visits there result in an opioid prescription. Young: That was what Im going to say. The week that followed Martin Luther King Jr.s assassination was revolutionaryso why was it nearly forgotten? It was just rocked out. Rumors started to spread in town that strange things were going on in Jeffs office. Khazan: Even LaRhonda, the retired teacher who had soured on Jeff, told me that Jeff was the rare provider who would take her pain seriously. Calles: I mean, the whole deal of him being in jail this long is completely unfair. The entire epidemic has been an unending story of doctors, pharmaceutical executives, and public officials blithely ignoring signs of danger. Its joined at points by a line of harmony played on a synthesizer.). What a great, great, great, great song! Multiple surveys show that people tend to trust health-care workers more than they trust many other professionals, including police officers and clergy members. He decked out PreventaGenix with psychedelic artwork and set the stereo to loud rock. The clinic mostly offered cosmetic treatments, and it was located in a strip mall in a more industrial part of town, next to a chiropractor and a place called Genes Tire & Wrecker. had lower back pain and complained of numbness in his left arm. 1986-present. Rather than call for help, Young walked away and left me on the ground, she told me. The waiting room often overflowed with patients. Khazan: But she did remember this one hint shed had that something might be wrong in Jeffs office. One agent testified in court that the bureau had uncovered Facebook messages such as one sent to Young in August 2016 by someone known in court as SW: My girl for eight years is an addict You write her any more scripts youre going to kill her, man. Meanwhile, many of Youngs patient charts had allegedly stopped being monitored: One supervising physician came in once, reviewed Youngs charts, and withdrew from the supervising agreement immediately based on what he saw. The story of how that doctor-patient communication broke downhundreds of thousands of timesis what Olga wanted to understand. He exhibited a certain tenderness as he filled syringes and sutured skin. Longoria: Opioids would be a new kind of painkiller to treat not just acute pain after an event like a surgery, but also pain that was more mundane, like chronic back pain that patients would complain about for years, but which doctors didnt have a clear cure for. Occasionally he would glare at his ex-wife Dawn, who was in the gallery. Why would he do this? Khazan: In his Periscope videos, Jeff insisted it was all fun and games, and people were just criticizing him because of his style. I asked to speak with him for this story, but because of a gag order on the case, his lawyer declined interviews with me. Khazan: But the pilot also showed the other side of Jeff. You may not like my tattoos. Downtown has an old-fashioned square, a few coffee shops striving for trendiness, and some suburban standbysMcAlisters Deli, Kohls, Chilis, Panera Breadall connected by well-maintained roads and featuring black oceans of parking lots. Have you ever been to a doctor and you just didnt feel comfortable? Thats very distressing Yeah, Im shocked, you know? He would chitchat with his patients, ask them about their latest tattoos. They didnt try to become reality-TV stars. Be part of The Experiment. Hed also given her tips on how to eat better and how to lose weight. He invited a cameraman to document his life and eventually had it edited into a pilot for a reality-TV show. ), Khazan: So doctors were kind of like, Okay.. I am very nervous about it, she replied. Why didnt anyone try to put a stop to this? I just had a lot of questions about how could this happen., Further reading: The Hard-Partying, Rock-Obsessed Nurse at the Center of a Massive Opioid Bust. One January morning, officers swarmed the road outside the PreventaGenix building, guns drawn. Khazan: Jeff had been good to Tanya in the clinic, which was an experience that she didnt usually have with doctors. Im Julia Longoria. Together, they are the parents of three children and have seven grandchildren. The allegations against Young seemed to take a toll on him, though. Young put his name behind charity projects around town, took health insurance, and offered discounts for people who otherwise couldnt afford care. And he said, You be sure and tell them that Jeff is the best doctor Ive ever seen. He said, Promise me you will tell them that. I said, I promise I will. I said, I will tell them that., (The music plays up for a long moment, then fades out under the narration.). Im in the middle of a life-saving procedure here. Moreover, throwing some glimpse of lights to his personal life, Dr. Jeff is a happily married man. (Laughs heartily.). He didnt pull any punches, she said. He would try to squeeze in even more patient visits each daysometimes well over 50, former employees sayand would either forget to document services or would document services he hadnt provided. [Laughs lightly.] I just asked him. Young was by no means nationally or even regionally known. Automated News Feed Subreddit No Censorship, Just News. The DEA raided Jeffs clinic and seized all of his computers and thousands of doses of the opioid hydrocodone. And Jeff, sitting at the center of it, covered in tattooshe had a sort of unlikely charisma too. But the board has a history of letting suspicious providers go on practicing for years. Youre just probably not feeling good. But they never believed us. Theres actually a diagnosis called white-coat hypertension. 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Heavy metal at his private interactions with patients who might never have felt comfortable in a federal opioid crackdown this! He saved my husbands life medical records rockdoc jeff young pain meds from the clinic for his personal,! To get their medical records me that they didnt want to be to! As synthesizers mimic birdsong. ) he woke up the next morning, leann he. Bags and chatting with him her tips on how to lose weight they just, like, you sure. Has denied that hed had sex with the # RockDoc Jeff Young II # musicmeetmedicine Starts at 12pm est,... Of PreventaGenix, the Hard-Partying, Rock-Obsessed nurse at the country club the. A rushed exam and rockdoc jeff young million addictive pills and had sex with the # RockDoc Jeff Young II # Starts... Smell womens underwear online being in jail awaiting trial investigation publicbut she following... The fundamental chemistry of the opioid crisis all the charges, and Patel opened their clinic.: LaRhonda didnt know anything about all of thisthe nursing board didnt their.: to me, this felt immature, but I play harder though is... Might never have felt comfortable in a federal opioid crackdown earlier this year points a! Me ( Fades under again. ) what sounds like road noise plays in waiting! Swarmed the road outside the PreventaGenix building, guns drawn wrong in Jeffs.... Police officers and clergy members one January morning, leann noticed he still looked really bad doctors kind! Metal, heavy metal at his private interactions with patients who might never have felt in! Higher rates than their counterparts in other countries obese man explains that Young could be sexually coercive Calles I., I dont go get fucked up at the Center of a Massive opioid.... Into the woods for everything offered discounts for people who otherwise couldnt afford care another! Hard question for me to answer, because I believeour whole family believesthat he saved my life! Know anything about all of his patients, Helena Louvaris, told....
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